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Talk:BreakTheInternet/@comment-24435238-20170413034545/@comment-3575890-20170414143843
Ari!!! <33333 *Agreed on most counts, except I did not find him to be the least bit tropy. He's actually one of the most realistic and identifiable characters I've ever seen. Part of the reason he's so loveable, is its so easy to see into his heart and to place oneself in his shoes. I felt all the emotions he did throughout the series: sadness, anger, disappointment, disillusionment, embarrassment, spite, anxiousness, love. He's just so damn real to me. Some might argue he's too perfect, but he's really actually not. He just seems that way because he's the most decent person out of Hannah's list and when you compare him to the majority, he looks like a saint by contrast. However, despite that he's genuinely good and kind, he's also a passive-aggressive, spiteful, loose cannon (for a good reason) who becomes more and more undone later on. I agree that I would have liked to see some light shed on his illness as well. I assumed it may have had something to do with Jeff's death, but perhaps it even predated that. *Agreed so much! I was iffy about Hannah at first, if only because I felt that what she was doing, essentially blaming 13 people for her death and making sure they KNEW she held them accountable, was unseemly, and felt almost counterproductive in the feelings of self-hatred and guilt that were bound to be invoked from those tapes - I quickly changed my tune, however, when I came to find how much most of these people truly DESERVED to be on those tapes and that she wasn't just pointing fingers for the sake of it. Especially with how remorseless so many were. By the time I finished the series, I understood Hannah's reasons completely. She didn't do this to spite anyone; she did it to get them to recognize the error of their ways so that this would not happen to the next girl and I commended that so much. I also let go of my initial contention that her character was too resemblant of the quintessential John Green-inspired pixie girl trope. I did feel that she felt more like a fantasy or idea than a person at the start of the series, but that all diminished, the more we got to see into her thoughts and her final years/months/days alive. By midway, she became very real and important to me. *Agreed so much! I always loved Jessica. I felt terrible for her in light of her rape and loved that her agency wasn't overridden by Clay, Tony, or anyone in the decision to turn over those tapes that contained a traumatic experience she wasn't yet ready to talk about. I would have understood if any one of them turned those tapes in without consulting her as it meant exposing a dangerous rapist, but it's also not in anybody's place to put a victim's rape on blast like releasing those tapes would have done. *I respectfully disagree. Tony's decision to withhold the truth did not change my opinion of him in the slightest. I admit I might have hardcore stanned him a little too much for the fact that he did basically obstruct justice for two rape victims and leave two grieving parents in the dark, but the thing is, his motives weren't selfish. Unlike the others, he wasn't looking to save his own ass at the expense of others. He truly believed that he was honouring Hannah's wishes by following her exact instructions, which did not at any point detail any wish for her parents (or anyone else not on the tapes) to hear her final thoughts. I think Tony might have grappled with the idea of turning them over to her parents at some point, but was fearful of disrespecting Hannah's wishes; and at this point, he was overwrought with guilt and felt that this was the only way he could do right by her. Yes, he absolutely should have turned them into the authorities, but then he would have went against the sole reason Hannah created those tapes and ended the cycle that he was assigned to initiate as per her last request before it could even begin. Tony's main objective was to ensure that all thirteen people heard the tapes; otherwise, he'd have failed Hannah. Another thing worth mentioning though is that turning over the tapes without at first seeking permission of Jessica would be outing her rape to the world. Even Clay left that decision ultimately up to her because he recognized that it wasn't in his place to turn over those tapes. Jessica ultimately had final say of it as it was her choice whether to come forward or not. I am not saying that in Clay or Tony's place, the right thing to do would have been to withhold all evidence, because ethically, those tapes should have been turned in immediately. Bryce deserved to be put to justice and I personally couldn't live with myself if I knew of his filthy actions and did nothing about it. All I'm saying is that I understand how Tony and Clay may have felt they were caught between a rock and a hard place with on one hand, possessing this morsel of evidence that outs a rapist and two rapes, and many other things as well, but also contains a girl's innermost secrets and intimate thoughts that she might not have ever wished for the rest of the world, or her grieving parents, to hear. It's true she threatened for them to go public, but I think that was more of a scare tactic to get people to keep listening to the tapes rather than a reflection of an unspoken desire for the rest of the world to hear her story. *Agreed! He was a problematic fave until that shit he pulled at the party. After that, he was dead to me. *Agreed! Zach did some questionable things, mostly for acceptance and validation, but he was a good person deep down. He was one of the few to feel guilt and dwell on the gravity of his actions. He held onto Hannah's note instead of throwing it away like she thought he had, which in of itself said a lot about his character. He should have done something about it and didn't, but only because he didn't know how to respond or what to do. He messed up and he didn't know how to make up for it, but he had a good heart. He simply didn't let Hannah see enough of it. *Agreed! Nothing more to be said. *Strongly disagree. I think Alex committing suicide made the most sense out of anyone because his actions in particular, triggered the start of Hannah's downward spiral. Justin may have besmirched Hannah's image, but Alex's list was what put a target on her back. Of course it wasn't his fault directly for all the things that happened thereafter, but there's no denying that his sexual objectification of her was what led to boys thinking they had monopoly over her body. That they had the the right to harass, objectify, and assault her. That list dehumanized her and as soon as it went viral, many boys in a manner of speaking used it to justify treating her as a sex object to be degraded and manhandled. It was true that she was already mistreated, and statistically, would have continually been regardless because high school boys are insipid little pigs, but it was Alex's list coupled with Justin's lies that made Hannah a public spectacle at the school, of which boys took full advantage. This series is essentially about the butterfly effect. Alex's list was the catalyst that started this cycle of sexual harassment, degradation, and assault upon Hannah. And Alex acknowledged this from the start. He held himself completely accountable and attempted suicide once already before ultimately shooting himself in the finale. It could have been anyone else, like Sheri, Jessica, Justin, Tyler - ones who had their own demons, but it's not always the person you expect either. Alex showed all the signs from the start, but he mostly suffered with his guilt silently snd allowed those feelings to fester much like how Hannah had. In fact, by the turning point, I saw a lot of Hannah in Alex. He exhibited all the signs and even THEN, after all the public awareness about suicide circulating through the school and Hannah personally trying everything in her power to teach the thirteen to recognize these signs and be proactive about it, nobody saw Alex's red flags. That's the sad irony. Hannah's words fell on deaf ears. Also, be as it may he had a father that would bail him out of anything, that was what added to Alex'a grief. He didn't want to feel absolved. Every time his dad tried to get him out of a situation, he was worse off. He felt he deserved to suffer and his dad wouldn't allow him to take accountability, which ultimately made him feel guiltier and worse about himself. The thirteen failed Hannah and twelve of them also failed Alex, but in addition, Alex's father failed him the most. *Agreed. Besides pompous, narcissistic, and self-servingly opportunistic, Ryan wasn't that bad. He was one of the few that wanted Bryce to be put to justice. *Agreed! I liked her well enough at first, but I knew she was going to disappoint me behind words based on the overall negative reception of her character, so I didn't get attached. After the shit she pulled at the dance, I despised her and that hatred kept growing. Defending Bryce and discrediting a victim's testimonial was what put her at an all-time low. *Agreed so much! I never stopped loving Sheri. She was so kind, thoughtful, and compassionate. A huge mistake she made exposed a selfish side to her, but one fuelled by fear of consequence and her own guilt. She cost a boy his life. In the end, she swallowed her fear and denial of her culpability and took responsibility, which is more than can be said for most of the others. She was a sweetheart that for no other reason than the trauma she inadvertently caused Hannah, belonged on those tapes. *Agreed! I didn't feel a pinch of sympathy for him. Clay gave him a taste of his own medicine that he rightfully deserved. *Agreed! He was a literal angel! It was so sweet how he took Clay under his wing. It's people like Jeff that stood the chance to help people like Hannah, Skye, and Alex. He genuinely cared about people and actively reached out to them. It didn't matter that Clay was younger and unpopular. He saw a kid struggling, and took it upon himself to help make his life more bearable by offering his guidance and friendship much like Clay returned the sentiment with Skye later on. As this show exposes, there are two types of people in respect to how they respond to somebody who is visibly depressed or suicidal: the overwhelming majority who take voueurist approach and do nothing, or don't even notice to begin with, and people who actively try to make a difference. Jeff was one of these gems; Clay was the other, but later ended up following his example. *Agreed! From a narrative perspective, Skye is a redux of Hannah with her own individualistic traits and story that offers an alternate outcome within the framework of social proactivity to show that there is hope when the right circumstances are presented. The message is that the simple act of reaching out to someone noticeably suffering can make all the difference in what happens next, as we've seen with Skye and Clay and the alternate reality sequences between Hannah and Clay. It's the positive side of the butterfly effect. *Yep! Worst counsellor ever. However, I would not say he was without human decency. He cried at the end because he knew he failed a student and triggered her to suicide. He was ignorant and insensitive and one can only hope he learned from his mistake and won't make the same one again with the next suicidal girl to come into his office.